Public Meeting on new ferries

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The Society hosted a public meeting last night, Nov 1st 2007, at the Community Centre, to enable public debate about Wightlink’s proposed new ferries. All interested parties were invited to attend, with assurances from Society chairman Clive Sutton that they would have a fair opportunity to state their case.

We expected a good turn out, and were pleased to be able to use the new Hall at the community Centre, which has accommodation for 200. However, we were rather overwhelmed by the numbers, as well over 300 people attended the meeting. At least a half of the audience were standing, and the sound system struggled to manage. Evidence that the topic is an important one to the town, and that the Society’s role is very much appreciated.

The Meeting

The meeting opened with a welcome and introduction from Clive.

This was followed by a presentation of the Main issues by Society Press Spokesman Donald Mackenzie, in which he presented the history of events leading up to the meeting.

Andrew Willson, Managing Director of Wightlink, then presented the reasoning behind the need for, and choice of, the new R Class ferries.

Peter Griffiths, the Chairman of the Harbour Commission, discussed the makeup and responsibilities of the Harbour Commission, and their involvement to date with this issue. He also took the opportunity to aprise the Lymington community of the threat to the salt marshes, and to appeal for help with this serious situation.

Geoff Holmes, the Commodore of the Royal Lymington Yacht Club, then spoke, giving the Club’s position, and relating how it has become increasingly concerned over the potential impact of the new larger ferries.

There followed presentations from personal speakers. These were concerned users of the river, with personal expertise and experience.

Chris Baldwick Boats, Moorings, etc
Roger Wilson Junior Sailing
Michael Derrick Displacement
Dr Ken Hay Windage, Horsepower and Damage to Riverbanks
Derf Paton Environment
Mike Beggs Traffic, Transport and Freight
Dr Tom McEwen General Concerns
Mark Malanaphy General Concerns

Dr Mackenzie, Andrew Willson, Peter Griffiths and Geoff Holmes were then invited onto the stage, and the audience put questions to them. The final hour or so of the meeting consisted of questions from the audience. It was evident that the ferry service is much valued, and that the skill and good nature of the ferry crews is much appreciated, but the community is nevertheless very concerned about the impact of the new ferries, and is unhappy about the procedures to date. Several times the question was asked “How can it have come to this point?”

Desmond Swayne MP expressed the thoughts of many present when he asked why Natural England had declined their invitation to attend. Many feel that they are the Government body with authority to take the necessary steps to protect the delicate marine environment.

The meeting closed at just after 10:00 pm. The chairman thanked all of the participants, and expressed his appreciation to all attending, particularly as over 150 people had been standing throughout. The meeting had a spot on the BBC local news at 10:30.

The meeting was recorded, and we will be posting a transcript on this website when it is available. There was an enormous amount of useful detail in the presentations and Q and A session.

For a Transcript of the Meeting Click Here

This transcript is a close to verbatim as we can manage. During the question and answer period, the secretary made notes and these can be seen Here. These included questions asked after the transcript tape ran out, so they are NOT verbatim.

LATEST: Solent Protection Society Drops Support for New Ferries – Watchdog’s ferry U-turn

80 members attended the Solent Protection Society’s AGM on Monday. At the end of the meeting the Society resolved to register its objection… pending the completion of the relevant competent assessments, prior to them entering into service. Society Spokesman Susan Preston Davis told the A&T : ” In the light of additional information recently made public by Wightlink and in the Adjournment Debate in the House of Commons on Nov 27th, the society has decided to oppose the ferries pending the analysis of the assessments commissioned by the Lymington Harbour Commissioners.” Society Chairman Shelagh de Carteret Evans added “Whilst appreciating the need for new ferries, we are concerned at the potential impact of the proposed new ferries, and have contacted Wightlink and the Lymington Harbour Commissioners to register our objection. We will be carefully monitoring the outcome of the relevant assessments.”

Friday 2nd Nov: Wightlink orders third new ferry for Yarmouth route.

Isle of Wight ferry company Wightlink has confirmed that it has placed an order for a third new ferry for its Lymington to Yarmouth route, despite a public outcry about the size of the new ships. The news comes the day after a public meeting in Lymington which was called because of the high level of anger in the town at the introduction of the new ferries, currently being built in Croatia, which displace almost twice as much water as the existing vessels. Campaigners claim that the new 1,496-ton ships will damage the environment of the Lymington River with its reed beds and salt marshes and will be a hazard to other vessels. Some sailing activities from the Royal Lymington Yacht Club are also said to be under threat.

Southampton Echo: Friday 2nd Nov: FERRY operator Wightlink has pledged to establish new guidelines for the two larger boats it controversially plans to introduce to Lymington River next year. Speaking at a packed public meeting last night, chief executive Andrew Willson said that he will use a new risk assessment – ordered by the Lymington Harbour Commissioners – to establish rules for his ferries. He made the promise as the two sides in the fiery debate over the larger ferries met for the first time at a meeting attended by more than 250 people. Wightlink made assurances about the ferries’ necessity and low impact but other users of Lymington River made calls for further assessments. Fears of more water displacement and damage to the salt marshes were top of opponents’ worries. Mr Willson said: “The way forward is for the harbour commissioners to undertake a further risk assessment. We will use the results and conduct trials to determine appropriate guidelines for the ferries.” advertisement From next summer, Wightlink plans to replace two ferries on its Lymington to Yarmouth service. The new £10m vessels, each weighing 1,495 tons compared to the current 850 tons, will displace almost twice as much water.

Public Meeting on Wightlink ferry proposals November 1st 2007

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The Society hosted a public meeting last night, Nov 1st 2007, at the Community Centre, to enable public debate about Wightlink’s proposed new ferries. All interested parties were invited to attend, with assurances from Society chairman Clive Sutton that they would have a fair opportunity to state their case.

We expected a good turn out, and were pleased to be able to use the new Hall at the community Centre, which has accommodation for 200. However, we were rather overwhelmed by the numbers, as well over 300 people attended the meeting. At least a half of the audience were standing, and the sound system struggled to manage. Evidence that the topic is an important one to the town, and that the Society’s role is very much appreciated.

 

The Meeting

 

The meeting opened with a welcome and introduction from Clive.

 

This was followed by a presentation of the Main issues by Society Press Spokesman Donald Mackenzie, in which he presented the history of events leading up to the meeting.

 

Andrew Willson, Managing Director of Wightlink, then presented the reasoning behind the need for, and choice of, the new R Class ferries.

 

Peter Griffiths, the Chairman of the Harbour Commission, discussed the makeup and responsibilities of the Harbour Commission, and their involvement to date with this issue. He also took the opportunity to aprise the Lymington community of the threat to the salt marshes, and to appeal for help with this serious situation.

 

Geoff Holmes, the Commodore of the Royal Lymington Yacht Club, then spoke, giving the Club’s position, and relating how it has become increasingly concerned over the potential impact of the new larger ferries.

 

There followed presentations from personal speakers. These were concerned users of the river, with personal expertise and experience.

 

Chris Baldwick Boats, Moorings, etc

Roger Wilson Junior Sailing

Michael Derrick Displacement

Dr Ken Hay Windage, Horsepower and Damage to Riverbanks

Derf Paton Environment

Mike Beggs Traffic, Transport and Freight

Dr Tom McEwen General Concerns

Mark Malanaphy General Concerns

Dr Mackenzie, Andrew Willson, Peter Griffiths and Geoff Holmes were then invited onto the stage, and the audience put questions to them. The final hour or so of the meeting consisted of questions from the audience. It was evident that the ferry service is much valued, and that the skill and good nature of the ferry crews is much appreciated, but the community is nevertheless very concerned about the impact of the new ferries, and is unhappy about the procedures to date. Several times the question was asked “How can it have come to this point?”

 

Desmond Swayne MP expressed the thoughts of many present when he asked why Natural England had declined their invitation to attend. Many feel that they are the Government body with authority to take the necessary steps to protect the delicate marine environment.

 

The meeting closed at just after 10:00 pm. The chairman thanked all of the participants, and expressed his appreciation to all attending, particularly as over 150 people had been standing throughout. The meeting had a spot on the BBC local news at 10:30.

 

The meeting was recorded, and we will be posting a transcript on this website when it is available. There was an enormous amount of useful detail in the presentations and Q and A session.

 

For a Transcript of the Meeting Click Here

 

This transcript is a close to verbatim as we can manage. During the question and answer period, the secretary made notes and these can be seen Here. These included questions asked after the transcript tape ran out, so they are NOT verbatim.

 

LATEST: Solent Protection Society Drops Support for New Ferries – Watchdog’s ferry U-turn

 

80 members attended the Solent Protection Society’s AGM on Monday. At the end of the meeting the Society resolved to register its objection… pending the completion of the relevant competent assessments, prior to them entering into service. Society Spokesman Susan Preston Davis told the A&T : ” In the light of additional information recently made public by Wightlink and in the Adjournment Debate in the House of Commons on Nov 27th, the society has decided to oppose the ferries pending the analysis of the assessments commissioned by the Lymington Harbour Commissioners.” Society Chairman Shelagh de Carteret Evans added “Whilst appreciating the need for new ferries, we are concerned at the potential impact of the proposed new ferries, and have contacted Wightlink and the Lymington Harbour Commissioners to register our objection. We will be carefully monitoring the outcome of the relevant assessments.”

 

Friday 2nd Nov: Wightlink orders third new ferry for Yarmouth route.

 

Isle of Wight ferry company Wightlink has confirmed that it has placed an order for a third new ferry for its Lymington to Yarmouth route, despite a public outcry about the size of the new ships. The news comes the day after a public meeting in Lymington which was called because of the high level of anger in the town at the introduction of the new ferries, currently being built in Croatia, which displace almost twice as much water as the existing vessels. Campaigners claim that the new 1,496-ton ships will damage the environment of the Lymington River with its reed beds and salt marshes and will be a hazard to other vessels. Some sailing activities from the Royal Lymington Yacht Club are also said to be under threat.

 

Southampton Echo: Friday 2nd Nov: FERRY operator Wightlink has pledged to establish new guidelines for the two larger boats it controversially plans to introduce to Lymington River next year. Speaking at a packed public meeting last night, chief executive Andrew Willson said that he will use a new risk assessment – ordered by the Lymington Harbour Commissioners – to establish rules for his ferries. He made the promise as the two sides in the fiery debate over the larger ferries met for the first time at a meeting attended by more than 250 people. Wightlink made assurances about the ferries’ necessity and low impact but other users of Lymington River made calls for further assessments. Fears of more water displacement and damage to the salt marshes were top of opponents’ worries. Mr Willson said: “The way forward is for the harbour commissioners to undertake a further risk assessment. We will use the results and conduct trials to determine appropriate guidelines for the ferries.” advertisement From next summer, Wightlink plans to replace two ferries on its Lymington to Yarmouth service. The new £10m vessels, each weighing 1,495 tons compared to the current 850 tons, will displace almost twice as much water.

Chairman’s Report for the AGM 21st March 2007

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Ladies and gentlemen can I welcome you all to this Annual General Meeting of the Lymington Society.

Bill Hope-Jones

This year the meeting is not formally opened as in former years by our late President, Bill Hope Jones. He was our President for many years. Last year I announced that he was no longer attending Committee meetings nor the AGM. Sadly, he died before Christmas. I am sorry that there has not been a greater public recognition of the benefits he brought to this Town, by his involvement in setting up the Community Centre and being a founder member of the Lymington Society.

New President

Last year I also had to announce that my battle to retain Peter Chitty as an active member and Treasurer of the Committee had finally been lost and he had persuaded me to accept his resignation. I am pleased to say that we have secured his services in another guise and he has kindly agreed to be our new President.

The Secretary has guided us through the appropriate election procedures during the formalities. Well what a year it has been! Having been through the usual subject including the Webbs Site, in my last annual report for the 4th April 2006 Annual General Meeting I never dreamt so much would have happened before the next Annual General Meeting.

Public Meeting

Very soon after the last meeting there was enormous dissatisfaction over the manner in which the Waterford Lane planning application was passed and at the same moment McCarthy and Stone decided to make an application for a monstrous building on the corner of Avenue Road and Southampton Road

I well remember the pressure under which I was placed to do something over the Waterford Lane application, and at the same time I saw on the NFDC website the size of the proposed building at the junction of Avenue Road in Southampton Road.

Another public meeting was clearly in order to obtain our members and the Town’s views on these important planning issues following on from the precedent of our extremely successful public meeting over the Webbs Site a couple of years earlier.

The meeting took place on 21st June last and whilst I had expected to have one or two Councillors, we were all impressed by the fact that many members from the NFDC turned up and more would have come from the Town Council, if it had not clashed with a planning meeting.

I and Don Mackenzie opened the meeting and, after several questions from the floor, Mel Kendal, the Leader of the Council, took the floor to explain the Council’s position. One of the things they made very clear was that money was not an issue in relation to the opposition to unwarranted planning applications and that they were prepared to take on appeals when necessary. Chris Elliott, the Chief Planning Officer, followed that with an explanation of the difficulties faced by the Planning Officers. There were more questions and the meeting went on well beyond when most of the members of the audience should have been in bed.

The meeting was well publicised and Don McKenzie had a spot on in local television and I think rumours of our meeting even got as far as Government Departments. It filled three rooms in the Community Centre.

Petition leads to Society being Invited to Become Involved

As a result of that meeting and the petition which was circulated at the meeting and afterwards amounting to 1700 signatures Mel Kendal invited us to a Council meeting in October to present the petition formally to the Council.

The resolution passed at that meeting reads as follows:

“Design which is inappropriate in its context, or which fails to take the opportunities available for improving the character and quality of an area and the way it functions should not be accepted.”

And I hope this is having a direct influence on Officers’ recommendations and the Council members’ decisions by relieving the pressure to build high-density developments in residential areas in Lymington.

Southampton Road

At this very moment the Site which was so much in our minds that evening has now been refused by the NFDC and has gone for an Appeal, which is being heard at a Public Inquiry today and tomorrow. Your Committee Members have spent some time putting together their proofs of evidence in relation to this Appeal. It is a landmark Appeal. We have the disadvantage that the Council, without allowing any real input from the townspeople allowed two big developments in Avenue Road which are now built.

I think it is accepted that those approvals were a mistake. I hope and believe the Council has learnt from its mistake. However, those developments are there and we have to persuade the Inspector that those developments should not have an affect on the current application. The current Application is so gross in its size, that I hope the Inspector will dismiss it. In preparing for this Appeal I can say that the Council have now started to ask for our cooperation and support in opposing this Appeal.

The appeal is under way at the moment and Don McKenzie gave very good evidence this afternoon on the impact of the site on various factors such as need, the effect on the age balance in the community, the impact on the infrastructure, traffic problems and diversity.

I will give evidence tomorrow on the impact of the application on the overall character of the area and Ivor Johnston will talk about the impact of so many additional elderly people on the medical services in the town. I can say that the way in which the developers have approached this Appeal already is to hammer home the fact of the precedents of the two new developments on either side of Avenue Road allowed by the Council without any input from local residents. The Council are on the back foot and say that these were allowed prior to the current design standards being introduced. We however can roundly criticise the Council, as we have in the past, for allowing these buildings to be built, which we knew would give rise to this sort of application for bigger and bigger developments

One of the benefits of an independent body such as ours is that we can say things which may not be quite so politically correct as the statements that need to be made by the Council, and in doing so we can possibly more accurately reflect the real feelings of the people of Lymington. They are having to watch the character of the Town slowly but surely change from a small market town to a suburban Town into which all the modern features of urban living, including national chain stores and coffee shops, which are being drawn in by the increased population.

Whilst the Lymington Society cannot stand in the way of economic change it can try to ensure that the physical expression of that change is as much in keeping with the existing character of Lymington as possible by retaining its streetscapes. That character is retained in the Conservation Area by virtue of the Conservation Area policies, these do not apply in the surrounding urban areas. We have to be vigilant. There are other developments on the horizon which are a natural result of improvements to the Town. We now have a splendid new hospital, which has resulted in land being available for further development. That development must be in keeping with its surroundings.

Cannon Street School

Whilst we are co-operating as much as possible with the Council in encouraging them to reduce density, I have to say that one local difficulty has emerged. You are all no doubt aware of the Canon Street School Site. This was described in the Conservation Area as allowing views across to Walhampton. The Old School Building gave character to that part of Lymington and sat well with the new library which is now complemented by the new Community Hall.

However, to lose the school to another block of the modern style and dormer roof flats was to lose another part of Lymington’s character. Donald MacKenzie made our representations to the Council and attended the planning meeting in December.

We were distinctly dissatisfied with the outcome of that meeting and the way in which the decision was made for various reasons. These include the obvious interest the NFDC had in the sale price through its sister local authority the Hampshire County Council which was selling to the Swaythling Housing Association at a price based on the number of units granted.

The Planning Meeting seemed to make the decision on the number of units in the scheme itself. Permission for the demolition of the School, which was a separate application, seemed to follow without any further discussion. There has been no serious attempt to see whether the School can be retained either for community uses, as actually intended in a previous local authority document, or incorporated into a new development.

The upshot of this was that as the contractors moved in we received a barrister’s advice that there were grounds to say that the Council’s decision should be objected to under the Judicial Review process. I can say therefore that as from last Monday you as members of our committee are litigants with the New Forest District Council in the High Court.

However, before you are horrified at the prospect, can I say that we are able to continue a dialogue with the Chief Planning Officer and now the Council’s legal representative which will lead us to further meetings our respective legal advisors so that we can decide whether the Council can satisfy our legal concerns about this decision, and if not we will obviously revert to the members for a decision as to what further action we take.

At this stage the stop press news that of course during the course today the school has disappeared. The council had been aware of our position four-week and have taken no steps to prevent the contractors demolishing it. We had assumed that they would have made some representations to the contractors but possibly they’re in a position to do so. We are in no position to obtain injunction because injunction requires an undertaking to pay damages if we are wrong and we do not have the resources to pay the sort of damages that might arise from delaying a development of this nature whilst a judicial review goes through.

I intend that our barrister and the council’s barrister will meet to see whether we are satisfied whether our barrister continues to advise us that the Council’s procedures in this application were flawed. If so we will consider what other avenues are open to us.

Whilst this has been a difficult decision for the Committee to take, the Committee has been unanimous in deciding that if we do have expert planning advice to the effect that the decision is flawed, it is our duty on behalf of our members and the population of Lymington to try to take action if a significant building in the conservation area is threatened .

Webb Site

Every year I mention the Webb Site but this year it has been relatively dormant while Appeal goes through over the question of the change of use from the hotel to a care home. That Appeal is now fixed for 21st April and we will make representations on the basis that the area should not become a dormitory for old people and should have some vitality. However, our position on the Webb Site has been that we feel that the Council were going to agree to excessive density and the lack of mixed uses on the Site and that if there was an opportunity to go back to the drawing board, that would be no bad thing.

Social Events

Last year I was also able to announce the start of the regular social programme having held a couple of social meetings by the time of the last AGM. Since the last AGM we have had a full social programme which has been well supported and will be reported on by the Nigel Seth-Smith our Social Secretary.

For those of you who missed the social events or did not come to as many events as you would have liked, I hope you will attend more this year. They are extremely good value. They enable the Committee to meet the members and to gauge their feelings and to enable the members to liaise with the Committee.Our thanks go to Nigel Seth-Smith and his Committee and to those who hosted some of the events.

New Committee Member

Last year I probably caused sufficient embarrassment by naming and shaming the other members of the Committee and I will not do so again but I will repeat that this year has been an extremely active year and has been very demanding for the Committee. We have a new member, Rose Tainsh, who was very instrumental on her own behalf, and as a Society Member, in coordinating local opposition to the Bath Road Planning Application which was rightly refused on Appeal by a Planning Inspector during the course of last year.

Speaker

Finally, I am very pleased to welcome Tim Kermode as our speaker tonight. Here is another topical subject on the question of climate change and how it will affect Lymington particularly so far as rising sea levels are concerned. Tim is the Environment Agency Area Flood Risk Manager and I shall introduce him more fully in due course.

Ladies and gentleman, thank you.

Clive Sutton

Chairman Lymington Society 

Chairman’s Report for Newsletter Autumn 2006

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The last Lymington Society newsletter was produced in the Spring. Since then as ever with the Society much has happened.

Waterford Lane

At the end of May two issues came together. The first was the disquiet amongst the residents of Waterford Lane and the rest of the town about the way in which planning permission had been granted for a large new development by Quantum Homes, which was notorious firstly because the fact of the ring barking of trees by the developers, and secondly for complaints against the then Town Mayor which have subsequently been dealt with by a Local Government Standards Investigation in which he has been exonerated.

Avenue Road Flats

The second was the planning application for a huge block of 29 flats at the junction of Avenue Road and Southampton Road. At that stage there was so much feeling in the Town that, following on the success of a previous public meeting over the Webb Site, the Society’s committee decided to call another public meeting.

Lymington Society on TV

Just prior to the meeting Don Mackenzie had been interviewed for local television and radio which produced considerable interest.

Public Meeting

This took place on the 21st of June in the community centre attended by more than 250 people having to take up a total of three rooms with two rooms linked by loudspeakers and microphones. Those of you who were there will no doubt remember the meeting well, but many of you may not have been able to come. For those of you who have not heard my opening speech a copy is available on the website. Due to some audio problems in one of the rooms I had to restart it halfway through but I made the point to the councillors present that it was probably a good thing for them to hear it twice.

Councillors

The meeting was well attended by District Councillors including Mel Kendall, Jeremy Heron, Tom Russell, Maureen Holding and Paul Hickman together with the Chief of Development Control Chris Elliott. Also present was County Councillor Adrian Evans and Town Councillors Elizabeth Lewis and John Smale. Unfortunately the meeting clashed with the Town Council Planning Meeting that evening.

Residents Speak

After an illustrated presentation by Don Mackenzie the meeting was opened up to contributions from the floor firstly on the planning application process for Waterford Lane and secondly more general comments relating to overdevelopment. There were wide-ranging questions and answers and no subject was out of bounds. Reply by Mel Kendall and Chris Elliott Mel Kendall replied on behalf of the councillors supported by Chris Elliott. Their contributions were well received and Chris Elliott made the point that he had not realised that when developers approach the Hampshire county council regarding highway access prior to drawing up development plans, that Hampshire county council did not pass this information on to NFDC who could take steps to protect trees in advance of potential ring barking by developers. He would take steps to rectify this. Derf Patton as a well-known local nurseryman made the comment that ring barked trees could be saved. For those of you who want to look at the detail of the meeting it was recorded and a full transcript is available to be taken off the website http://www.lymsoc.co.uk

Petition

A petition was circulated at the meeting and afterwards and has now achieved 1425 signatures. It has been presented to the NFDC and Mel Kendall, the leader of the Council, is very keen that there should be a specific meeting to deal with this petition and concerns of other amenity societies and councils in the area. A meeting is taking place at the NFDC offices on the 30th of October, when the petition will be presented to the Council. I am told that the wish will be for the Council to be able to pass this petition on up to the Secretary of State to show the strength of local views on the impact of national planning policies. Our initiative seems to have been followed up by our local communities also protesting at the amount of development in their areas and producing petitions.

Social Events

Social events have continued during the summer and I am very grateful to the Social Committee for the success of these. An ongoing programme is shown elsewhere in this website.

Planning

By the time you read this letter we will have made representations and a planning appeal on the Bath Lodge development in Bath Road, which if it is allowed will have a very detrimental effect on the character of the Bath Road at that point. We are also been involved in the concern over the demolition of a burgage plot wall at 28/29 High St without planning permission and I have given some comments on the importance of burgage plots and burgage plot walls, to the Southampton Evening Echo. Our dialogue with the council over various planning issues is ongoing. The only subject which is almost dormant at the moment is the Webb site redevelopment where the site is going through a change of ownership and at the same time an appeal to change current hotel permission to a care home use which the majority of your committee disagrees with. More and more people are realising that Lymington is under a real threat of significant change and that everything must be done to minimise the effect of change on the town’s character. Whilst obviously new homes are needed there are plenty of sites for these new homes on the Webb Site, the old Hospital Site when it becomes available and other places where dense development is not out of keeping with the locality. The problem is that developers are taking advantage of government directives encouraging density of development, to redevelop existing residential areas which do not immediately need redevelopment.

Support your local Councillor

Apparently the Councillors do not agree with the changes of character but say they need support from the local community to resist such applications. The Society’s membership has increased considerably recently because of new members wishing to be involved in that resistance. Please encourage others to join and pass their names to the Secretary for application forms. Finally your Chairman gained some satisfaction on your behalf when the Quantum Homes developers asked to be introduced at a recent party in the Town. After my initial surprise I was able to react quickly enough to ask: “And which of you ring barked the trees”. After their initial surpri

Clive Sutton

Chairman Lymington Society